PART TWO Husband Emerging from 8 years in MLC

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Foreign.

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Hello friends and welcome. Midlife crisis, also known as

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mlc, is often dismissed as a cliche, but the reality

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is far more serious. During this period, individuals experience a profound

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psychological and emotional upheaval leading to impulsive and

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self destructive decisions that they later regret. Despite the

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clear signs of instability, MLCers are currently allowed to file for divorce

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and make irreversible financial and legal choices, often to the devastation

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of their long term spouses and families. Thank you for joining us today because

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now you are going to hear people from around the world as they tell their

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story in their own words about their bomb drops

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and beyond. The stories and events discussed

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in this podcast are based on our guest experiences and

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are intended for informational and entertainment purposes only.

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They should not be considered legal, medical or professional advice.

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Any names, locations or identifying details have been changed to

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protect privacy. Any similarities to actual persons, living or

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dead, or real events are purely coincidental. The views and

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opinions expressed by guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect those

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of the host or the podcast creators. Listeners should consult with

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a qualified professional regarding their own circumstances.

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So today this is our first Part two

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episode. A few days ago we spoke with John for

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the first time. He is an MLCER that's been experiencing

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midlife crisis for about eight years. He was at

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home the entire time but unfortunately his wife

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recently moved out and he's ready

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now for reconciliation. But you'll hear from him about what's going on.

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But he had so much to share with us and we had such a an

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astounding response from people wanting to hear more from John

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that we have him back today for a second

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part interview and he's going to share a little more of his story. He's also

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going to share little excerpts from a letter that he

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has written to his wife. And anyway, you're going to hear

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a little more. So here we go John,

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because you sort of mentioned it was like a tug of war, you know.

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Yeah, it was. I lived

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at home, I always stayed at home,

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I, I was in love with my wife.

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But I also had a emotional online affair

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and puts

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you in a position where you were involved with

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two people at the same time. And it was very hard

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a lot of the time. And like

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we've said, it's like a tug of war in your mind and

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it came on gradually, that tug

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of war because as your emotional, I think as

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your emotional bond increased,

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that feeling of. It was a feeling

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of betrayal is a good

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way to. At least me. I had a feeling of betrayal.

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I knew it pulled at your

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mind. You knew at some points that at

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some times you shouldn't. What you're doing really

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wasn't right. And other times

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you couldn't control it. That was the hardest

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thing you knew

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in your mind. And I sat and looked at my partner sometimes

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and sat there and thought, how could I do this?

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But on the other hand, there was that emotional draw,

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and mine actually became like an addiction because

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of some of the things that took place as it being

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online and not. There was

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times when the emotional connection

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was withdrawn, and then it came back,

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and that created a vacuum, and it created addiction

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to it. And so that happened.

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And there were things that happened in this

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emotional relationship that I didn't even

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want to be part of it, but there was still an addiction

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draw, just like. And you wrestled

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with it in your mind. And I could sit in

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a chair and know what I was doing was wrong, but couldn't

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control it. Yep. And that was the hard part.

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Did you, in your mind ever think, like, how is

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this going to end with this woman? You know,

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that was the problem. And I did.

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In the end, I tried. I tried a couple different ways to end

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it, and I tried to.

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There was an opportunity where I could not. Where I

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could have not. Not messaged.

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And because of the draw and the addiction, I couldn't.

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I couldn't. Couldn't do it. And it

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was very hard. It was. I think,

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a lot of shock was one of the things that stopped

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it. I think I was in a certain place in

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my midlife crisis that allowed the shock to stop

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it. I mean, when my

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wife two years ago found out that I was emotionally involved

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with someone online, I went to a Christian

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Strongholds class. I took it twice,

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and I still couldn't break that addiction. That was two years

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ago. Knew it was wrong then.

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And that's when all this wrestling really started.

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A lot of it, I mean, you had inklings before that,

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and it would go through your mind, but it was.

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It wasn't like I was involved physically with her

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or saw, so there was some justification.

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And then when I went through the Strongholds class,

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that's when it started to become more, this is wrong,

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but you don't have any control over it. And then

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this year in October, my wife found out again.

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And that was the shock part, that I

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was at the point then where I didn't want to be part of it.

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So it was very easy to shock myself out

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of it. There was always the fear.

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And the woman that I was involved with knew how to

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control, so she Kept this control on

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me during that time and

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kept the addiction too,

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during that time, even though I knew I didn't want to be part

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of it. And my wife finding out

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actually gave me the opportunity to get out of it.

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There was no threat of her finding out anymore.

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I pretty much immediately signed up for counseling.

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I mean, within a week I was trying to get into counsel. Less than a

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week, three or four, couple days, I was trying to get into counseling,

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which takes way too long. It took a month, which is.

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Which is unacceptable, really,

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in this day and age. I think if someone needs

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mental help, you know, mental counseling and help,

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it should be available almost immediately. And I would have done

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things a lot differently if I was able to get the correct

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counseling right away.

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There were things I could have done that would have made my situation better

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and I just didn't know how to. I didn't know how to do them.

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I didn't know I was in my midlife crisis either.

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And you didn't realize that limerence was going on, you know?

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Right. And it was more than limerence.

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It was. The person knew how to. To when.

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Actually, when you go through marriage

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reconciliation, there's a period of time where you need

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space. She knew how. She knew how to give space and withdraw

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it to make you come and go. It's called

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push, pull. And she knew do that.

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So that created that vacuum where you always wanted.

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There was always a pull. So it was more than limerence.

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It was. Was it manipulation? It was

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psychological manipulation, yeah,

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psychological manipulation. Wow. Yeah, it was.

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And I don't know if all other women in

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these scenarios know how to do that. I think it's very common.

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I do, I think. And maybe it's because

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of the way the other person is that causes

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some of that. I don't know.

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But it created a hardship

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for me in the fact that it

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was hard to escape until it was at a point

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where it had done a lot of damage. And I

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think at the two year point,

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if people had more knowledge, at the two year point, maybe more

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could have been done. If I knew I was having a midlife crisis,

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then maybe

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intervention could have helped.

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I don't know. In my case. Well,

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we tried intervention with a

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Strongholds class, but it was more of a. It was

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a class where you were more on your own and you.

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It was Christian based, so it was Bible based,

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which is okay. But this also.

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This needs professional oversight, this,

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this type of problem. You need to. There was nobody

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holding me accountable and that. Would that

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have helped? Would you have. I think it would have. That's what this is all

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about. A lot of it is about accountability, at least

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for me now, is about being accountable for

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my actions and for what I do and

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for how it affects people and

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what it causes.

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That's what you as a human being should be looking at.

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And I think at two years I was in midlife

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crisis, I probably could have been dealt

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with differently if I was

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diagnosed and treated in a different way and

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held and there was some accountability standards applied.

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I think I could have. Maybe some people couldn't

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because the person has to be agreeable to it too.

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Yeah, that's part of it. And from what

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I'm reading, a lot of these people,

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and I want to say men, because it's. The majority are men, but there

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are women that go through this.

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They don't want to be accountable.

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From what I've read, I think I could

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have if I had some accountability. I knew what was going on.

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I knew that there was addiction

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happening and the reason it was happening, I think.

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But you got to be honest. And that's a hard thing to do when you're

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going through this. It's very hard. You lie.

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You lie all the time. And you

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know that personally, I'm sure, and any other left behind

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spouse, I'm sure knows that. And I've looked

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at a lot of the symptoms and compared them to like

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narcissism. And a lot of them mimic some

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of the narcissistic traits. You know,

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an affair, lying, gaslighting,

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all that stuff happens. And I have

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in my, in my counsel,

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because I'm concerned, I'm concerned that am I,

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am I, could I be a narcissist? Narcissist.

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And I've in my demeanor

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could lead to traits of that.

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And I talked with my counselor a lot about

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that and I finally got an answer from her and she

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says, no, you're definitely not a narcissist. You did display

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narcissistic trait.

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And everybody, A lot of people

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do. A lot of people do. Regardless.

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It's part of. Oh,

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unless you're the, the person that is right in the middle of the road

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in your. And I forget what they call that person.

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In your character, you, if you're

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on one end of the scale, if you're a, an avoidant or

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a anxious person, you do

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on those ends, you do display narcissistic traits.

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You aren't a narcissist. You just. And you don't do it all the

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time, but you, you can do it. So I was concerned

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about that and I got my answer.

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And you know, there's, there's ways to,

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to correct your behavior even as MLC

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coming out of it. You do have to. There's a lot of corrections

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that have to be made in yourself. There's a lot of

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inner. Anybody that's been a midlife

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crisis person needs to look in to

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themselves and they need to look at what they've done and how they've

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reacted and you know, know that,

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that nobody's perfect. But there's ways to fix those imperfections

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or, or temper them or, you know, to make them better.

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You know, it's, It's. Do you. I have an

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idea of how, you know, most MLCers, I think,

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do have a physical affair.

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And you didn't.

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No. No.

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And I, I have. I just didn't.

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I don't know if I would have, if it, if, if the opportunity

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was there, possibly I would have.

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I don't know. I was never really.

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That never came to the forefront.

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And I did meet the person. It was an

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emotional online affair. I did meet the person four times

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for probably an hour each time or an hour and

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a half. There was opportunity probably to do

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it. I didn't act

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on it and I didn't. I didn't feel that I comfortable

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acting on it really. And she try to encourage you

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to act on. No, no, there was no. It was more emotional.

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An emotional. And when I met with her,

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it was, it was at a time where I was.

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The relationship had changed. There wasn't as much

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emotional attachment at that time. There was a lot of conflict

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00:16:04,870 --> 00:16:08,366
and changed

251
00:16:08,398 --> 00:16:11,450
to the point where I was, I was.

252
00:16:11,830 --> 00:16:14,654
That's where when I met her,

253
00:16:14,822 --> 00:16:19,250
I was already looking for a way out or, or contemplating.

254
00:16:19,670 --> 00:16:23,150
This is something like the beginning of the end. Yes.

255
00:16:23,230 --> 00:16:27,262
And this is, Is wrong and it's. I need to find a

256
00:16:27,286 --> 00:16:30,644
way to stop it and. But the addiction was still there.

257
00:16:30,732 --> 00:16:34,196
So. So maybe the circumstances weren't

258
00:16:34,228 --> 00:16:37,732
right. Do you see what I'm saying? But that never happened.

259
00:16:37,796 --> 00:16:41,332
And I thank God that it didn't happen. That's one

260
00:16:41,356 --> 00:16:44,836
thing I can say. I've always been faithful to my wife.

261
00:16:44,948 --> 00:16:48,500
As far as an adulterous affair, I've never had

262
00:16:48,540 --> 00:16:52,196
one and I'm. That's one thing I can be proud

263
00:16:52,228 --> 00:16:55,776
of, I guess. Oh, absolutely. I think your wife's very lucky,

264
00:16:55,908 --> 00:16:59,736
very fortunate that, you know, an emotional affair is.

265
00:16:59,808 --> 00:17:03,112
Is rough and not ideal, but, you.

266
00:17:03,136 --> 00:17:06,020
Know, it's a, It's a,

267
00:17:07,600 --> 00:17:11,144
It's a betrayal, it's a breaking trial, which is,

268
00:17:11,312 --> 00:17:14,728
is very Bad. It's. It's not.

269
00:17:14,864 --> 00:17:15,660
It's.

270
00:17:18,080 --> 00:17:21,736
It's almost as I wanted to say, it's as bad as an

271
00:17:21,808 --> 00:17:25,381
adulterous affair. No, many say

272
00:17:25,405 --> 00:17:29,381
it is because it really hurts. Oh, yeah. The wound

273
00:17:29,445 --> 00:17:32,853
is still there. And healing

274
00:17:32,981 --> 00:17:36,129
from that is. It's got to be

275
00:17:36,749 --> 00:17:40,597
a terrible thing. Well, do you feel like you

276
00:17:40,653 --> 00:17:43,269
destroyed something that could never be repaired?

277
00:17:43,429 --> 00:17:47,409
No, I don't, because I've done a lot of work on that end of it,

278
00:17:47,709 --> 00:17:51,089
and there's things that need to happen to repair it,

279
00:17:51,720 --> 00:17:55,504
and both parties have to be willing and dedicated

280
00:17:55,552 --> 00:17:58,832
to doing that. But it can be repaired,

281
00:17:58,976 --> 00:18:02,740
and it takes a lot of work, a lot of accountability

282
00:18:03,080 --> 00:18:04,620
and a lot of change.

283
00:18:06,280 --> 00:18:09,792
And I

284
00:18:09,816 --> 00:18:12,832
want to say I'm willing to do the work, and I have done a lot

285
00:18:12,856 --> 00:18:16,512
of it already, and you

286
00:18:16,536 --> 00:18:20,190
have to do it anyways. If you're. If you're not

287
00:18:20,230 --> 00:18:24,450
going to be with that partner and you plan on being with someone else,

288
00:18:24,870 --> 00:18:29,090
that work has to be done or you're taking this whole mess somewhere else.

289
00:18:29,510 --> 00:18:32,910
Exactly. And if you don't do

290
00:18:32,950 --> 00:18:37,102
that, you're just going to be in trouble again in

291
00:18:37,126 --> 00:18:40,926
a different way. Probably. You may not be in a midlife crisis,

292
00:18:40,958 --> 00:18:45,050
but you'll have similar problems, I'm sure.

293
00:18:45,380 --> 00:18:49,200
If you could turn back time, is there anything you could do differently?

294
00:18:49,700 --> 00:18:53,116
I don't. You know, from the time that you were sitting in the

295
00:18:53,188 --> 00:18:57,080
living room and that feeling in your head, you had the panic attack.

296
00:18:57,700 --> 00:19:01,740
If I knew. If I knew what I know

297
00:19:01,780 --> 00:19:05,468
now, if I knew that that panic attack

298
00:19:05,604 --> 00:19:10,588
was the start of a midlife crisis. If someone,

299
00:19:10,724 --> 00:19:14,462
you know, if someone is having midlife crisis

300
00:19:14,526 --> 00:19:20,318
symptoms and there's enough of them, they're easy to spot some

301
00:19:20,374 --> 00:19:23,210
intervention at that time with the person.

302
00:19:24,550 --> 00:19:26,490
The thing is, they don't believe it,

303
00:19:27,430 --> 00:19:30,210
and I probably wouldn't have at that time either.

304
00:19:31,830 --> 00:19:35,902
But if some intervention can be made at that time,

305
00:19:36,086 --> 00:19:39,662
especially early, there might be a chance

306
00:19:39,726 --> 00:19:41,810
of changing the outcome.

307
00:19:42,990 --> 00:19:46,486
There might not be, because midlife

308
00:19:46,518 --> 00:19:49,650
crisis, there's varying degrees of them.

309
00:19:50,510 --> 00:19:54,230
Why do some just do certain things and

310
00:19:54,270 --> 00:19:56,170
others have these extreme,

311
00:19:57,150 --> 00:20:01,530
extremely destructive patterns?

312
00:20:04,110 --> 00:20:07,956
Yours was not as destructive. Oh,

313
00:20:07,988 --> 00:20:09,720
yeah, you're very lucky.

314
00:20:11,020 --> 00:20:14,916
Yeah, I guess. But some are less destructive

315
00:20:14,948 --> 00:20:17,876
than mine. So how. Where, how,

316
00:20:17,948 --> 00:20:21,636
how does that. Where does that variation come from?

317
00:20:21,708 --> 00:20:26,372
And, you know, that's something that might need to be addressed

318
00:20:26,516 --> 00:20:28,640
at the mental health level.

319
00:20:29,660 --> 00:20:33,444
And what can be done to minimize the.

320
00:20:33,532 --> 00:20:37,236
The damage from them. Exactly. And I know

321
00:20:37,308 --> 00:20:41,120
you said it should be taken more seriously as a psychological issue.

322
00:20:41,420 --> 00:20:44,628
Yes, most definitely. It's a mental health

323
00:20:44,684 --> 00:20:48,084
issue. And it needs to be dealt with as a mental

324
00:20:48,132 --> 00:20:51,412
health issue. And that awareness that

325
00:20:51,436 --> 00:20:54,772
it is may bring people to

326
00:20:54,796 --> 00:20:58,388
the forefront to address it and treat it before it has

327
00:20:58,444 --> 00:21:02,548
a problem of being so detrimental that it destroys

328
00:21:02,724 --> 00:21:06,596
a person's two, two or can destroy entire

329
00:21:06,628 --> 00:21:09,796
family. More than two lives, it destroys a whole family.

330
00:21:09,948 --> 00:21:12,560
Yeah. Yeah, it is.

331
00:21:14,780 --> 00:21:18,644
You know, you had mentioned the other day it had written

332
00:21:18,692 --> 00:21:22,420
a letter and I thought you might like to read that. It, you know,

333
00:21:22,540 --> 00:21:26,196
I've heard your letter and I thought it could almost be a letter

334
00:21:26,228 --> 00:21:29,364
that could go to almost any left behind spouse.

335
00:21:29,492 --> 00:21:32,772
Yeah, I wrote, I wrote a

336
00:21:32,796 --> 00:21:36,052
letter. My wife, right after this happened,

337
00:21:36,116 --> 00:21:39,876
she asked, and she asked the first time,

338
00:21:40,028 --> 00:21:43,268
you know, how, why, why did this happen? How,

339
00:21:43,324 --> 00:21:47,044
how could this happen? And I couldn't give a good answer.

340
00:21:47,172 --> 00:21:51,316
I just, I just said, you know, there was affirmation,

341
00:21:51,508 --> 00:21:54,612
it made me feel good, there were compliments, made me

342
00:21:54,636 --> 00:21:58,864
feel younger, did all the, you know, did those things.

343
00:21:58,952 --> 00:22:02,192
I couldn't pinpoint why, you know, what. Actually hold

344
00:22:02,216 --> 00:22:05,536
it right when you said that. Like if your wife had said,

345
00:22:05,608 --> 00:22:08,992
if she had, you know, maybe,

346
00:22:09,136 --> 00:22:12,976
you know, people get into a routine and so she probably just wasn't

347
00:22:13,168 --> 00:22:16,800
giving you as many compliments. And the affirmation thing, if she

348
00:22:16,840 --> 00:22:20,576
had, do you think that would have made a difference? I don't know. And I've

349
00:22:20,608 --> 00:22:23,630
thought about that. She does, she does come.

350
00:22:24,250 --> 00:22:27,586
She did compliment me. There were certain things she

351
00:22:27,658 --> 00:22:31,554
did and I can remember them, but it wasn't the same.

352
00:22:31,642 --> 00:22:34,498
It wasn't an emotional connection.

353
00:22:34,674 --> 00:22:38,370
It was a, it was more of a compliment out

354
00:22:38,410 --> 00:22:42,050
of duty than a, than an emotional connection.

355
00:22:42,210 --> 00:22:44,990
And, or that's at least what it felt like.

356
00:22:46,010 --> 00:22:49,640
So, yeah, that in. And I thought that

357
00:22:50,180 --> 00:22:53,244
in this process, late in it, I thought,

358
00:22:53,412 --> 00:22:56,800
you know, how can I emotionally.

359
00:22:57,140 --> 00:23:00,332
How do I get the feeling I'm getting from her and not from

360
00:23:00,356 --> 00:23:05,308
my wife? Yep. Why is that? And that's

361
00:23:05,404 --> 00:23:08,780
part of this answer that I've written. And I

362
00:23:08,820 --> 00:23:12,492
wrote it to her. And I'm not going to say the name because you don't

363
00:23:12,516 --> 00:23:16,348
want names. You asked why

364
00:23:16,404 --> 00:23:20,332
I did what I did. I was never able to give you a satisfactory answer.

365
00:23:20,476 --> 00:23:23,868
The question was asked of me in a support group

366
00:23:23,924 --> 00:23:27,756
I'm in. And the support group is the

367
00:23:27,828 --> 00:23:31,196
one that you're into. Because of counseling

368
00:23:31,388 --> 00:23:34,972
that I have done, I am now better able to answer that in a

369
00:23:34,996 --> 00:23:39,460
more meaningful way. A person in the group said that

370
00:23:39,620 --> 00:23:44,116
I needed to share that with you as it was one of the biggest questions.

371
00:23:44,308 --> 00:23:48,436
From what I understand, life changing events tend to cause midlife

372
00:23:48,468 --> 00:23:51,812
crisis. I didn't real even realize I

373
00:23:51,836 --> 00:23:55,428
was in one until someone from the marriage restoration

374
00:23:55,524 --> 00:23:59,060
support group that I'm in said that I should

375
00:23:59,100 --> 00:24:02,708
take a test. And it was the test for

376
00:24:02,764 --> 00:24:05,360
midlife crisis. You.

377
00:24:05,990 --> 00:24:09,982
It was a midlife crisis test and I had about 80% of the symptoms

378
00:24:10,126 --> 00:24:13,822
and most of the bad ones. From what I gather. It began

379
00:24:13,886 --> 00:24:16,890
in 2017. I began to experience.

380
00:24:19,430 --> 00:24:22,494
Oh, I began to experience a midlife crisis.

381
00:24:22,622 --> 00:24:25,902
Apparently I had depression which I've had for the

382
00:24:25,926 --> 00:24:29,170
most part of my life. I think work and pressure

383
00:24:29,510 --> 00:24:32,780
of my job weighed on me more

384
00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:36,768
than I anticipated. I remember

385
00:24:36,944 --> 00:24:40,336
about a time in 2017 sitting

386
00:24:40,368 --> 00:24:44,384
in chair and had the feeling of almost a panic attack.

387
00:24:44,552 --> 00:24:48,640
It felt like life was closing in around me, like something was

388
00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:52,448
compressing on me and that time and space was very short.

389
00:24:52,584 --> 00:24:55,840
These came and went and weren't all the time and

390
00:24:55,880 --> 00:24:59,494
didn't last that long, maybe an hour or so. I ignored

391
00:24:59,542 --> 00:25:02,930
them like most MLCs probably would do.

392
00:25:03,390 --> 00:25:07,610
MLC is very destructive, is very self destructive.

393
00:25:08,430 --> 00:25:12,570
I made poor decisions and did things way out of character.

394
00:25:12,910 --> 00:25:16,470
Midlife crisis is a mental illness to the extent

395
00:25:16,550 --> 00:25:19,862
that I had it. And the things that I did were so out

396
00:25:19,886 --> 00:25:23,766
of character. But due to the reasons I did some of these

397
00:25:23,838 --> 00:25:27,428
things, I was depressed and had been for a very

398
00:25:27,484 --> 00:25:31,076
long time. I was insecure about my life. I kept

399
00:25:31,108 --> 00:25:34,436
thinking about getting older and what would become of us.

400
00:25:34,588 --> 00:25:38,260
How was I to stop the work that I was doing but still

401
00:25:38,300 --> 00:25:42,212
manage the property that I have and have been doing

402
00:25:42,316 --> 00:25:45,520
for quite some time and where would that leave us?

403
00:25:46,060 --> 00:25:49,748
I was insecure about myself and how long I could manage all the things

404
00:25:49,804 --> 00:25:51,440
that I had over the years.

405
00:25:53,730 --> 00:25:58,070
How would I be able to transition all of this? I was also

406
00:25:58,450 --> 00:26:02,030
and always had been insecure in our marriage.

407
00:26:04,050 --> 00:26:07,882
I always deep inside felt you were more than what

408
00:26:07,906 --> 00:26:11,450
I deserved. You were always beautiful in my eyes.

409
00:26:11,610 --> 00:26:15,626
Oh, this is a thing that I'm pretty sure my first great experience

410
00:26:15,778 --> 00:26:18,966
led to to this and

411
00:26:19,038 --> 00:26:23,238
always questioning myself. I had a very poor first

412
00:26:23,294 --> 00:26:26,450
grade. I missed a lot of days in school.

413
00:26:27,950 --> 00:26:31,494
I actually hung on the door frames and they had to drag

414
00:26:31,542 --> 00:26:33,490
me out of the house to bring me to school.

415
00:26:34,590 --> 00:26:39,542
I also believe that some

416
00:26:39,566 --> 00:26:43,010
of my parenting had led to some of this also.

417
00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:46,976
And I didn't want to go into that with her way I was brought

418
00:26:47,008 --> 00:26:50,304
up. Sure. And I have forgiven

419
00:26:50,432 --> 00:26:53,728
that and it was relieved me from that burden.

420
00:26:53,824 --> 00:26:58,704
And that's some of this is you carry burdens throughout

421
00:26:58,752 --> 00:27:02,320
your life and they weigh on their subconscious and they weigh on you

422
00:27:02,360 --> 00:27:06,540
and they affect your life and

423
00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:10,540
they affect things that you do without you knowing it even.

424
00:27:10,950 --> 00:27:14,270
I felt I owe you an explanation for the wrongs I did.

425
00:27:14,310 --> 00:27:18,110
And I know I owe you the deepest apology

426
00:27:18,190 --> 00:27:21,930
for them and I repent for all of them that I've done.

427
00:27:22,790 --> 00:27:26,446
And I felt it was important for her

428
00:27:26,518 --> 00:27:29,838
to know. And there's a lot more to it

429
00:27:29,894 --> 00:27:33,406
than that. If we

430
00:27:33,478 --> 00:27:36,822
were to go to counseling, there was a lot more.

431
00:27:36,966 --> 00:27:41,206
That's surface level of how it happens.

432
00:27:41,398 --> 00:27:44,854
There's a lot more in depth things

433
00:27:44,942 --> 00:27:48,790
in a person that cause you

434
00:27:48,830 --> 00:27:52,646
to be who you are. And that's really what you need to figure

435
00:27:52,678 --> 00:27:56,278
out. You need to figure out who you are and the person

436
00:27:56,334 --> 00:28:00,690
you're with needs to figure out who they are. And then

437
00:28:01,470 --> 00:28:04,710
there is ways to modify that so that you

438
00:28:04,750 --> 00:28:08,244
are better people for each other. And I have a

439
00:28:08,252 --> 00:28:11,716
question for you. Now that you've gone through all this, you've obviously

440
00:28:11,748 --> 00:28:15,108
you've done a lot of work on yourself. You are so. It seems like you're

441
00:28:15,124 --> 00:28:19,000
just very evolved. I'm driven.

442
00:28:20,300 --> 00:28:23,972
Do you feel like you're more. You've even grown as

443
00:28:23,996 --> 00:28:26,280
a person? Oh, yeah,

444
00:28:27,420 --> 00:28:31,172
I have. I grew as a person. Two years ago when

445
00:28:31,196 --> 00:28:33,520
this happened, I didn't grow,

446
00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:40,200
I didn't act on it because being

447
00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:43,900
in a midlife crisis under the circumstances

448
00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:46,820
that were happening to me, but I did grow.

449
00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:50,264
I remember certain things that happened,

450
00:28:50,312 --> 00:28:53,400
like in that class that I took

451
00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:56,660
about strongholds. I know.

452
00:28:56,960 --> 00:29:01,060
I remember all of the things that took place and.

453
00:29:01,370 --> 00:29:04,642
And if I was probably not in a

454
00:29:04,666 --> 00:29:07,310
midlife crisis, it would have helped me a lot more.

455
00:29:09,050 --> 00:29:12,994
But yeah, you know, that's growing

456
00:29:13,042 --> 00:29:16,914
as a person is. You gotta keep growing. And in a

457
00:29:16,922 --> 00:29:19,858
midlife crisis, I think you do stop in a way.

458
00:29:19,994 --> 00:29:23,074
Oh yeah. Because you revert. Yeah.

459
00:29:23,122 --> 00:29:26,470
I think you don't evolve. You don't.

460
00:29:27,010 --> 00:29:29,910
You're kind of stuck in a. In a. You know,

461
00:29:30,370 --> 00:29:33,770
less mature. A little bit. Yeah. Yes.

462
00:29:33,850 --> 00:29:37,562
Well, you are. Because I think what I read is that somebody who

463
00:29:37,586 --> 00:29:40,842
has a physical affair tends to go back to a. More. More like

464
00:29:40,866 --> 00:29:44,470
a 17 year old mind. Yeah, I would say.

465
00:29:45,170 --> 00:29:48,710
I would say that. I don't think I. I went back to that.

466
00:29:49,010 --> 00:29:52,154
If you look at it that way. I was probably

467
00:29:52,202 --> 00:29:56,052
more in my 20s. If I

468
00:29:56,076 --> 00:30:00,500
haven't really looked at it like that, it would take more reflection

469
00:30:00,660 --> 00:30:03,440
for me to say much more than that.

470
00:30:05,020 --> 00:30:10,564
I don't know. But yeah, you are kind of stuck in a time warp and

471
00:30:10,652 --> 00:30:14,020
you don't grow as a person. There are things that my

472
00:30:14,060 --> 00:30:17,840
wife said to me that I should do.

473
00:30:18,140 --> 00:30:21,670
And it is part of this growing process,

474
00:30:22,050 --> 00:30:25,978
you know, being a better person, having goals.

475
00:30:26,154 --> 00:30:29,754
You know, I was, and she knew I was pretty on goal

476
00:30:29,802 --> 00:30:32,954
oriented at the time and I always had been,

477
00:30:33,122 --> 00:30:36,218
but I, I, and I

478
00:30:36,274 --> 00:30:39,670
answered it, what do you want a retired person?

479
00:30:40,370 --> 00:30:44,186
How many goals can a retired person have? You know,

480
00:30:44,338 --> 00:30:48,060
and I did, I, I was quote unquote retired. I still did

481
00:30:48,100 --> 00:30:52,444
a lot of other work. I had jobs,

482
00:30:52,572 --> 00:30:56,640
you know, that I did. So I technically

483
00:30:57,380 --> 00:31:00,892
wasn't retired, but I had a lot of free time.

484
00:31:00,996 --> 00:31:05,180
And I don't know if anybody's equated free time to

485
00:31:05,220 --> 00:31:09,228
this and the amount of free time you have where

486
00:31:09,284 --> 00:31:13,580
you can do or propagate

487
00:31:13,740 --> 00:31:17,320
the things that occur in a midlife crisis. Do you see what I'm saying?

488
00:31:17,940 --> 00:31:21,212
Has anybody free time sort of opened the door to

489
00:31:21,236 --> 00:31:23,320
that? I think so.

490
00:31:27,060 --> 00:31:31,788
In some ways it could have. It just popped

491
00:31:31,804 --> 00:31:35,212
in my head, so, and my wife

492
00:31:35,276 --> 00:31:38,502
had said it during it, you know, you've got too

493
00:31:38,526 --> 00:31:44,246
much time on your hands. And maybe

494
00:31:44,278 --> 00:31:49,606
there's some validity to that, that you

495
00:31:49,678 --> 00:31:53,330
have opportunity and time to do things that you shouldn't be doing.

496
00:31:54,190 --> 00:31:57,410
Because before that you were always busy working, doing one thing.

497
00:31:58,270 --> 00:32:01,650
Yes, I was so busy, I didn't have time for that.

498
00:32:02,590 --> 00:32:06,748
Well, you are clearly very self aware and, and I think that's a huge

499
00:32:06,924 --> 00:32:10,760
thing to be at that point now. That's great.

500
00:32:11,060 --> 00:32:14,716
Yeah. I've read some about people

501
00:32:14,868 --> 00:32:18,300
in midlife crisis and it's from the left behind spouse.

502
00:32:18,380 --> 00:32:22,040
So I don't know if it's like

503
00:32:24,100 --> 00:32:27,532
that midlife crisis, people that have come out of it

504
00:32:27,556 --> 00:32:29,480
don't seem to remember what they did.

505
00:32:30,580 --> 00:32:34,744
I don't know, maybe I have forgotten it and can't regurgitate

506
00:32:34,792 --> 00:32:38,776
it, but I seem to remember a lot of what I did

507
00:32:38,928 --> 00:32:42,408
and knowing

508
00:32:42,504 --> 00:32:46,408
that it wasn't right and

509
00:32:46,464 --> 00:32:49,992
that I had too much time on my hands and that, that kind

510
00:32:50,016 --> 00:32:53,864
of thing. So maybe we shouldn't let folks

511
00:32:53,992 --> 00:32:57,840
have too much time on their hands. Well, or, or you need

512
00:32:57,880 --> 00:33:02,016
to have a direction and that's

513
00:33:02,048 --> 00:33:04,660
some of it. You lost a direction.

514
00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:09,380
And if someone loses direction or purpose,

515
00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:13,216
we should be. And they're showing signs

516
00:33:13,248 --> 00:33:15,820
of midlife crisis, then we should be doing something.

517
00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:21,600
Somebody should be saying, this person's having

518
00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:24,612
a problem, there needs to be some intervention.

519
00:33:24,756 --> 00:33:28,164
Yep. Yeah, that's, that's a really good point

520
00:33:28,252 --> 00:33:31,360
for people to just be more aware and you know.

521
00:33:31,900 --> 00:33:35,428
Yeah, I think I started on that subject of awareness

522
00:33:35,524 --> 00:33:39,524
and in the different, different spectrum of a midlife

523
00:33:39,572 --> 00:33:44,420
crisis from not doing Much to doing

524
00:33:44,460 --> 00:33:48,340
a lot. I started to evaluate people that I know to see

525
00:33:48,380 --> 00:33:51,206
if they've been one. And like,

526
00:33:51,358 --> 00:33:55,030
I have a very good friend who I

527
00:33:55,070 --> 00:33:58,358
think has been through a midlife crisis. It wasn't bad.

528
00:33:58,414 --> 00:34:02,770
He spent a lot of money, but he spent it on his children,

529
00:34:03,230 --> 00:34:06,930
and he did things to improve their lives.

530
00:34:09,390 --> 00:34:13,174
He spent more than enough

531
00:34:13,262 --> 00:34:16,768
so that I thought, you're going to have to live

532
00:34:16,824 --> 00:34:20,160
in your old age sometime on something. Why are you

533
00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:23,760
spending all this money? Do you see what I mean? Like,

534
00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:27,392
he was jeopardizing his. I mean, let's face it,

535
00:34:27,416 --> 00:34:29,700
we're all going to get old and have to survive.

536
00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:33,792
He was jeopardizing his security. Yes,

537
00:34:33,856 --> 00:34:37,580
I felt that. And I thought just

538
00:34:38,360 --> 00:34:42,096
not too long ago, I knew he was doing this, but I didn't

539
00:34:42,128 --> 00:34:44,780
equate it to a midlife crisis. Maybe it was.

540
00:34:46,850 --> 00:34:50,650
I don't know. But I have begun to evaluate people.

541
00:34:50,770 --> 00:34:54,298
It's weird. Everybody that seems to, like,

542
00:34:54,354 --> 00:34:57,946
in the marriage restoration group I'm in,

543
00:34:58,098 --> 00:35:01,882
certain people will comment on, my partner is

544
00:35:01,906 --> 00:35:05,450
doing this and this and this. And I just put,

545
00:35:05,570 --> 00:35:09,546
your partner's having a midlife crisis. And I give them the hero spouse

546
00:35:09,658 --> 00:35:13,580
Facebook page. Oh, that's great. That's fantastic.

547
00:35:13,660 --> 00:35:17,260
Because you know what? Otherwise they're gonna. It's gonna take them several years to

548
00:35:17,300 --> 00:35:21,052
understand. And you can spot it a mile away.

549
00:35:21,236 --> 00:35:24,860
When it gets to a certain point, you can. I mean,

550
00:35:24,980 --> 00:35:28,040
they've moved out of the house, they've done this, they've done that,

551
00:35:28,580 --> 00:35:32,316
or they're. It's completely out of character. Yep. You can spot

552
00:35:32,348 --> 00:35:35,676
it. They do certain. Even when they haven't moved, I can spot

553
00:35:35,708 --> 00:35:39,032
it before then. And I

554
00:35:39,056 --> 00:35:42,376
guess it's a good thing. And I have

555
00:35:42,528 --> 00:35:46,660
talked to a person in Australia on a different site,

556
00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:50,488
and her husband was basically doing the same thing I

557
00:35:50,544 --> 00:35:54,216
was. And he was very early in it and

558
00:35:54,288 --> 00:35:58,488
to where he was just talking to people online and

559
00:35:58,544 --> 00:36:02,712
his wife had found out about it. And I

560
00:36:02,816 --> 00:36:05,848
was in the process of finding out about midlife crisis then.

561
00:36:05,904 --> 00:36:09,840
So I gave her some advice that might not have been.

562
00:36:10,460 --> 00:36:14,164
I said, you need to make them accountable. And I don't know if accountability

563
00:36:14,292 --> 00:36:18,308
at that time would help or if it would push them further into

564
00:36:18,364 --> 00:36:21,892
it, because I've been told that if you try to correct them,

565
00:36:21,996 --> 00:36:25,604
it pushes them further into it. Yep. It's strange

566
00:36:25,652 --> 00:36:29,140
how that works. Isn't that crazy? Because you're trying to give advice,

567
00:36:29,220 --> 00:36:33,338
but it pushes them further and further and further and. Yeah, it really.

568
00:36:33,474 --> 00:36:37,034
Psychological mystery, you know,

569
00:36:37,202 --> 00:36:40,634
I'll tell you this. There's another person that I gave advice

570
00:36:40,682 --> 00:36:44,630
to when I gave her the opposite advice, but this person in Australia

571
00:36:45,330 --> 00:36:48,746
confronted him and I stressed

572
00:36:48,778 --> 00:36:52,442
to her that you need to get professional help and you

573
00:36:52,466 --> 00:36:56,362
need to get religious help. Get both, because one helps

574
00:36:56,506 --> 00:37:00,536
with the. The. The actual

575
00:37:00,728 --> 00:37:04,008
midlife crisis and how to deal with it and how to deal

576
00:37:04,144 --> 00:37:07,380
with yourself as a person. And the other.

577
00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:10,020
The Christian act.

578
00:37:11,360 --> 00:37:15,064
The Christian part, counseling part actually

579
00:37:15,152 --> 00:37:19,220
acts on the emotional part in how you're supposed to treat people

580
00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:22,808
and how you're supposed to. It does help.

581
00:37:22,944 --> 00:37:26,122
It brings in a. That emotional,

582
00:37:26,186 --> 00:37:29,946
loving part to your marriage, which sometimes

583
00:37:30,058 --> 00:37:32,510
in a midlife crisis, that's lacking.

584
00:37:33,650 --> 00:37:36,474
But anyways, the person in Australia did that.

585
00:37:36,562 --> 00:37:39,482
And the last time I talked to her,

586
00:37:39,666 --> 00:37:44,190
they had agreed to go to counseling, professional counseling.

587
00:37:47,170 --> 00:37:50,522
And that's part of this problem too, is our professional

588
00:37:50,586 --> 00:37:54,900
counselors don't have enough knowledge and information

589
00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:59,192
on midlife crisis and what they are and how detrimental they

590
00:37:59,216 --> 00:38:02,632
can be. And I said, go to someone.

591
00:38:02,816 --> 00:38:06,616
I think in the end I had known about midlife

592
00:38:06,648 --> 00:38:10,504
crisis and I told her, make sure they know that he is in a midlife

593
00:38:10,552 --> 00:38:14,376
crisis. Yep. Because it does need to be treated differently.

594
00:38:14,488 --> 00:38:18,242
Yes, yes, it does. And it

595
00:38:18,266 --> 00:38:22,162
needs to be looked at. Counselors need to be educated in

596
00:38:22,186 --> 00:38:26,430
it, in how to treat it and what it is.

597
00:38:28,650 --> 00:38:32,590
And more study needs to be done on that too, on what it is.

598
00:38:33,130 --> 00:38:36,818
But there is another person that I talked with that

599
00:38:36,874 --> 00:38:39,550
had it. That was in that same.

600
00:38:39,850 --> 00:38:43,346
In a different marriage group. And it was classic.

601
00:38:43,378 --> 00:38:46,742
Her husband had moved to the basement. And I told her

602
00:38:46,766 --> 00:38:51,702
he's in a midlife crisis. And she joined the hero's spouse's

603
00:38:51,766 --> 00:38:56,038
community and bred quite a bit. And she was very angry.

604
00:38:56,214 --> 00:38:58,250
And I told her to be careful.

605
00:39:00,510 --> 00:39:03,958
Don't make ultimatums. Don't give him ultimatums.

606
00:39:04,054 --> 00:39:07,782
That's probably the worst thing you can do. I said, always leave a spot

607
00:39:07,846 --> 00:39:11,600
where he can escape from that if

608
00:39:11,640 --> 00:39:15,200
you're going to try to pressure him. And I said, pressure is probably not

609
00:39:15,240 --> 00:39:18,940
a good thing. But she was very determined that

610
00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:24,912
she was going to. I said, counseling is probably the

611
00:39:24,936 --> 00:39:27,952
best thing. I think in the end, he did agree to it.

612
00:39:28,056 --> 00:39:31,420
He had been in the military and could get.

613
00:39:31,960 --> 00:39:35,860
He was, you know, through. Through the veterans.

614
00:39:36,360 --> 00:39:40,374
He could get counseling. And I think in the end he agreed to counseling

615
00:39:40,422 --> 00:39:43,958
too, which I think that's the best

616
00:39:44,014 --> 00:39:47,570
we can do at this point is try to get people

617
00:39:47,950 --> 00:39:51,670
to professional help and then now get

618
00:39:51,710 --> 00:39:55,650
the professional help educated so they know what it is and

619
00:39:56,190 --> 00:39:59,782
better spot it and better recognize it and find a

620
00:39:59,806 --> 00:40:03,014
better way to treat it. Yep. Well, John, you have

621
00:40:03,022 --> 00:40:07,014
been such a blessing to our listeners here to give them some real insight,

622
00:40:07,062 --> 00:40:10,898
and I think you're such a. Obviously such a blessing to all the people you've

623
00:40:10,914 --> 00:40:14,498
reached out to to be able to, you know, give them that advice.

624
00:40:14,674 --> 00:40:16,670
Yeah, they don't find that.

625
00:40:17,770 --> 00:40:21,042
I'm sure it totally helps. Well, I'm gonna. I'll end our interview

626
00:40:21,106 --> 00:40:24,802
here. Thank you so much. And. And we're gonna be

627
00:40:24,906 --> 00:40:28,178
continuing to stay in touch with you to see how it goes with, you know,

628
00:40:28,234 --> 00:40:31,522
potential reconciliation that we're. We're praying that that'll work

629
00:40:31,546 --> 00:40:34,870
for you guys. Yeah, I hope so, too. I'll.

630
00:40:35,330 --> 00:40:38,906
I'm just going to become a better person. That's all anybody

631
00:40:38,938 --> 00:40:42,474
can do. Yeah, that's perfect. All right.

632
00:40:42,562 --> 00:40:45,710
Thank you, John. Thank you. Bye. Bye.

633
00:40:46,450 --> 00:40:49,722
So after hearing some of these stories, I hope you guys out

634
00:40:49,746 --> 00:40:52,954
there will realize that MLC should be recognized as a serious

635
00:40:53,082 --> 00:40:56,538
mental health and legal issue. Until there are systems in place

636
00:40:56,594 --> 00:41:00,978
to ensure that individuals that are in crisis are not making irreversible decisions,

637
00:41:01,114 --> 00:41:04,274
countless spouses and families will continue to suffer

638
00:41:04,322 --> 00:41:07,586
unnecessary devastation. It's time for the mental

639
00:41:07,618 --> 00:41:11,522
health and legal communities to address this growing problem and implement

640
00:41:11,586 --> 00:41:16,130
protections that recognize MLC as a legitimate temporary psychological

641
00:41:16,210 --> 00:41:19,474
impairment. Thank you for joining us today. Stay strong,

642
00:41:19,562 --> 00:41:22,866
stay awesome, and join us soon for another episode of midlife

643
00:41:22,898 --> 00:41:25,350
Crisis, Bomb Drop and Beyond.